Marijuana: Medicine, Money, and Modern Myths with Dr. Richard Kennedy

When Dr. Richard Kennedy took just three bites of a marijuana brownie years ago, he wasn't prepared for ceramic lions jumping across coffee tables and onto his lap. This vivid hallucination marked his first and last cannabis experience—but offers the perfect entry point into our comprehensive exploration of marijuana's complex role in modern society.

The Wellness Musketeers gather medical expert Dr. Kennedy, fitness expert and host "Aussie" Mike James, economist Kettle Hviding and wellness consultant Dave Liss examine cannabis through multiple lenses, creating a 360-degree view that challenges both prohibitionist fearmongering and uncritical enthusiasm. Each contributor shares personal experiences (or lack thereof) with marijuana, setting a tone of honesty that carries throughout this nuanced discussion.

We explore marijuana's medical applications, where evidence shows clear benefits for chemotherapy-induced nausea and specific pediatric seizure disorders, while other uses remain promising but less definitively proven. Dr. Kennedy explains the critical distinction between THC and CBD components and highlights how standardization issues complicate both research and patient experiences. The conversation doesn't shy away from concerns about youth marijuana use, cognitive effects, and the challenges of conducting rigorous scientific studies on a substance that remains federally prohibited.

The economic dimensions prove equally fascinating, as our panel unpacks how legalization has affected state revenues, created banking complications, and established a competitive but still-evolving marketplace. From security guards at cash-only dispensaries to the complications of marijuana tourism, the discussion highlights how policy decisions ripple through communities in unexpected ways.

Whether you're considering marijuana for medical purposes, curious about its economic impact, or simply wanting to understand this evolving aspect of our culture, this episode delivers thoughtful analysis without agenda or oversimplification. Join us for this enlightening conversation that respects your intelligence while expanding your understanding of a plant that's simultaneously ancient and at the cutting edge of social change.

Chapters

• 0:00 Personal Marijuana Experiences
• 1:10 Introduction to the Wellness Musketeers
• 3:04 Medical Effects of Marijuana
• 9:35 Marijuana Use for Pain and Sleep Management
• 16:21 Youth Impact and Addiction Concerns
• 21:57 Legalization and Economic Impacts
• 27:13 Banking Challenges and Market Regulation
• 32:38 Final Thoughts and Recommendations

Transcript

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 0:06

I was a youngster adult, but a youngster still. My friends and I were celebrating a birthday and we were on our way to a party but before we did, his girlfriend made us some brownies which happened to have some marijuana in it. We're sitting in the sort of living room. There's a little coffee table in there and on the coffee table there's these ceramic figures, there's elephants, there's giraffes, lions and tigers. I'd say I must have taken three bites of that brownie but all of a sudden those figures started moving and, you know, the lion, literally in my view, jumped across that little coffee table onto my lap. That was my first and last exposure to my life.

"Aussie" Mike James: 1:10

Hello and welcome to the Wellness Musketeers podcast, where we tackle complex health issues from multiple angles. I'm your host, aussie Mike James, and today we're diving into a topic that's been lighting up conversations across the globe marijuana use. In this episode, we're bringing you a comprehensive look at cannabis through the lenses of health, fitness, addiction and economics. Our team of musketeers is ready to cut through the smoke and bring you clarity. Dr Richard Kennedy will share his medical insights on marijuana's effects on the body and mind, including the potential therapeutic uses and health risks. Welcome, dr K Good to see you guys.

"Aussie" Mike James: 1:45

Okay, david Lith and I will be exploring how cannabis use intersects with fitness and overall wellness strategies. Welcome, dave. Hello and, last but not least, our economist, kettle Heiding, will break down the financial and societal impacts of marijuana legalization and commercialization. Welcome, kettle.

Ketil Hviding: 2:06

Okay, you always get my name wrong. That's okay, you're Australian. You see things from the other side of the world, I know, but that should be a part of this fantastic, fantastic, clear-sighted panel.

"Aussie" Mike James: 2:19

Okay, on that note, before we think you're curious about the medical applications of cannabis, concerned about its potential for abuse or interested in its economic implications, this episode promises to deliver a well-rounded perspective on this complex plant. If you find value in our discussions, please take a moment to subscribe, share and leave a review. It helps us reach more people. So let's spark up this discussion and explore the multifaceted world of marijuana use, and I thought today panel with the thought of full disclosure. Here we might just reflect a little on each of our use or non-use of marijuana. We'll start with you, dr K. What's your experience with marijuana?

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 3:04

You would start with me. Well, way back when, before time, when I was a youngster adult, but a youngster still we were, my friends and I were celebrating a birthday and we were on our way to a party, but before we did, his girlfriend made us some brownies which happened to have some marijuana in it, and so I'm going to set the table. This is we're sitting in the sort of living room. There's a little coffee table in there and on the coffee table there's these ceramic figures, there's elephants, there's giraffes, lions and tigers, and I'd say I'd say I must have taken three bites of that brown it was delicious, by the way but all of a sudden those figures started moving and, and you know, the lion, literally, in my view, jumped across that little coffee table onto my lap. That was my first and last exposure to marijuana.

"Aussie" Mike James: 4:19

So scary. But I'm guessing you've treated people with marijuana who've used marijuana quite a bit over the years, over the years yeah. What about you, Kettle?

Ketil Hviding: 4:29

Yeah, I mean I don't have these fantastic stories really, but I tried a little bit in my youth as well, not very effective, but I remember we were stopped for drunk driving but they failed the test for marijuana as well back in Norway. So I think that was kind of interesting. And then since then no illegal activity. But once it's become legal, of course I would have to try it. So I've been trying a little edibles and you know I tried sometimes a little bit too much and you know you feel like you're amongst friends, you're there, but you're not there, and that can be quite uncomfortable. That's pretty much my experience. I used it a little bit to help sleep. It's a very low effect, low dosage, but, you know, not anything particular to write home about.

"Aussie" Mike James: 5:18

Okay, what about you, david?

Dave Liss: 5:19

Yeah, I mean I've smoked occasionally over time, done edibles occasionally over time. One time I took something, just like Kettle said, I thought, okay, I'll just take a little bit of an edible and I'll go to sleep, and I took it around 9, and the next morning I taught a boxing class at 6. And then midway through the boxing class I realized I was still stoned. I didn't understand the difference between a round and the break from the round. I've had other experiences with edibles that were I thought I'd left and gone to another planet in another country or something. It was just. It was a frightening disaster. But I repeated my mistake once or twice. But I think it should be available for people. But you know, you gotta let your conscience be your guide or something.

"Aussie" Mike James: 6:09

Well, listeners, now for something completely different. My experience with it is zero zilch. I've never had a smoke or an edible, and not because I'm some great moralist, but I think because I was brought up in Australia in the 70s and 80s. We were very much a pub culture and it just wasn't part of our lexicon or our way of life. For most of the group I hang around with and alcohol was very much a big, mind-altering substance, so there was no need for marijuana. But we had the occasional people who used it. But I never experienced it.

"Aussie" Mike James: 6:41

But I think the biggest thing that stopped me from using it on a deeper level was the smoking aspect, because my father passed away from smoking normal cigarettes too many of them. He got emphysema, and my best friend's father the same thing, another heavy smoker. And if you've seen emphysema, that's not a good thing to die from and so that's always put me off from smoking any aspect of smoking. So it's always held it back. But I've got an open mind. I've dealt with people who've used it athletes, people in the Parkinson's area and so forth. So I have an open mind about it. But I've just got zero experience using it. So that's our backgrounds, isn't it listeners. So on to the actual discussion. Just to start it off, kick this off with our first little statement here Is marijuana a miracle cure or a dangerous drug? What's your views?

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 7:32

on that guys. Dr K, I don't think anything's a miracle cure. Marijuana falls into that general category. I don't. You know, like anything else, anything in excess tends to be more of a problem than it tends to be a solution or benefit. So I don't particularly think that marijuana has good points in the right circumstances for the right people, but it's not necessarily for everyone.

Ketil Hviding: 8:01

Maybe I can. I mean Dr Kennedy, of course, of course is the expert. But I'm pretty concerned about what you see in the industry, and it's probably being pushed by the competition in the industry as well. They're putting forward, quite often, claims, substantiated claims, about the benefits of different marijuana products and uh, you, and that's not regulated in any way. I mean, it's regulated in a way. They are not allowed to do it. But then you know, if it is a competitive industry with a lot of actors, it's very easy. They put it out there and get clamped down and then they put it back again. So that's a concern.

"Aussie" Mike James: 8:39

Yeah, that speaks to our second question, I guess, about the health benefits, and I can relate what you're talking about there, kettle. I think the popular press sometimes makes it a blanket cure for everything with headlines. For a while they did that with one particular Parkinson's patient whose tremors decreased markedly when he took marijuana. But the doctors and specialists some of the best in the world that I've spoken with at various conferences have said that that may work for that person, but it's not a blanket cure by any means. So these blanket sort of statements that it's a cure for everything have got to be taken with a little bit of balance, I think. So what would be the benefits of taking marijuana Dr K? What are the purported benefits of taking marijuana Dr K? What are the purported benefits of it medically?

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 9:35

So medically. So again we need to go back to why would people, from a medical standpoint, want to take marijuana? And there are many reasons why people would consider it. And the basic issue is that the most common reason people initially medically take marijuana is for pain, to relieve pain, to relieve spasm. And so in the medical community so, for instance, as you mentioned earlier, parkinson's patients or people who get multiple sclerosis and end up with spasticity, which means they have periods where they're really stiff and can't sort of move forward really well what they found and again big issue is there aren't enough studies that have been done that where you can give a person marijuana who happens to have Parkinson's or happens to have arthritis or happens to have, you know, or their ligament in their knee or something. Because there aren't really good studies right now. They're doing more and most of them are observational studies. You give a person it and the dilemma is what works best? Does smoking marijuana give the benefit as well as a gummy or an edible wood?

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 11:05

The only true studies where they really studied it clearly so far, to my knowledge, has been for cancer, chemotherapy, the results of chemotherapy.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 11:17

One of the main side effects is nausea and vomiting, and what they found was when they gave people marijuana and pretty much all the formulations, smoking edibles, even tinctures that you can rub on the skin or oils, the reduction in nausea and vomiting was real to those patients, but like anything else, the longer they used it. But like anything else, the longer they used it, the less the benefit. Now they've done some comparable studies where they've taken marijuana and given it to a group of patients who have nausea and vomiting after chemotherapy, and then they've given it and then they've taken the prescription drugs to give them and compared the two to see which one got the most benefit or relief of those symptoms. Hard to say, partly because it wasn't a standardized way that they got it, because they use people who went to their own medicinal clinic and got their type of marijuana and one medicinal clinic is not the same as the next uh their type of marijuana and one medicinal clinic is not the same as the next.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 12:30

The percentage of the different cannabis and thc I, hydro cannabinoid, cannabidor diol can never pronounce it. That's why we call it thc is the one that has the more euphoric, high sensation, relaxing sensation, whereas the CBD or cannabinoid are the ones that can have a benefit in reducing things like anxiety. So they have found that people who take it to relieve depression it has found benefit anxiety. What about sleep? Oh sorry, sleep as well. But what the belief is is that, first of all, when it's people who are using it for the very first time, who aren't frequent users, they tend to get much of those benefits initially. But, like anything else, if you keep using it, sometimes the beneficial effect wears off, and it's some. You actually get more of the effect that you were trying to prevent.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 13:31

Therefore, people sleep now instead of it being relaxing. Because if you think of what happens when people get the marijuana the THC portion of it it makes them feel relaxed, it makes them feel calm, it makes them feel calm, it makes them feel comfortable. So initially that makes sense that the person next will be able to sleep better, but it doesn't. You know, they haven't done studies to compare. Well, how is it in the most important part of sleep, which is REM sleep? We don't, we don't really know. At least I've not seen anything. So, continuing to do studies to try and Do you think it's? I mean, it must be very difficult.

Dave Liss: 14:12

Sorry. Do you think it's a good idea that all these states are legalizing marijuana for medicinal purposes?

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 14:18

I think it's Well. The dilemma is that you have states that are legalizing it, but according to the federal government it's still illegal and that creates. Now they're creating laws to do that, but at the same time, we don't have enough information right now to say that it's you know. The only thing that it's been proven really well is nausea and vomiting from cancer chemotherapy. It must be very difficult.

Ketil Hviding: 14:47

As you know, the gold standard for medical testing is the double-blind random test. So I mean, as long as you feel the THC, then you know that you've got it. You know, if you have a very small dosage, maybe then you can kind of have a placebo and they don't know whether they get the placebo or not, and then you can actually got it. If you have a very small dosage maybe, then you can have a placebo and they don't know whether they get the placebo or not, and then you can actually do it. So maybe they've done that for cancer patients, because you need that in order to get the FDA approved.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 15:20

Dr, there are two pediatric seizure disorders that happen only in the pediatric population, where they found that marijuana, but specifically two types of drugs that they have approved and I cannot remember the name of them right now. But those two marijuana-type drugs have been beneficial in preventing seizures in those children, but it hasn't been effective in people who have other seizures, like most adults who have seizures, but in that pediatric age group. Yes, okay.

"Aussie" Mike James: 15:53

Dr K, when you talk about the calming effect, I guess anecdotally from what I've seen, people who have rather aggressive or sometimes violent dispositions, I've seen good effects on those sort of people because it sort of brings them down a little. In popular culture. We've got Mike Tyson, I think, who sold marijuana now I believe, but I think that's had a good effect on him, from afar at least, and people I've known who've had that sort of hyper-stroke violent disposition. That's certainly helped them calm down. Is it something they would use in a psychological setting? A psychiatrist would they prescribe that, or is that still an unknown?

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 16:30

I'm sure there are people who would be willing to try it if they have failed at everything else. And again, this goes back to how marijuana, particularly the THC portion of it, works in the brain. There are receptors in the brain for cannabinoids and so what happens is and the good example is the person like you sort of described who's hyper anxious, and those people, if you give them marijuana, why their anxiety goes down, why they calm themselves down, is because it affects the release of dopamine into the system, which then makes people calm down. You know, same token for people where they try to get depressed, who they give marijuana to, because the other side of marijuana is that it makes you feel good. It makes you feel this release of I'm, I'm cool, I'm feeling relaxed and everything else puts people in a good mood. Same thing with the release of, and the effects of, serotonin and dopamine in the breath.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 17:40

So from that perspective, it does that the dilemma is that one medical medicinal marijuana site versus another, the dosaging and everything may be very different.

Dave Liss: 17:55

Okay. Is it like you're saying before, though, where the effects diminish over time, the perceived benefits?

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 18:03

Well, that's one of the things that they found is that the longer you use it, what they found is people's memory decreases. Their ability to concentrate into focus decreases, so indirectly. How does that affect an adult down the road? You know, one day they're this level of IQ and they've said that people's iqs who chronically use marijuana will decrease. Now I've had friends who told me I'm definitely not as smart as I was, but I can't stop taking the marijuana really well and so, and so I, you know I always say well, why don't you stop it for a while and see if you get smart again?

Ketil Hviding: 18:43

like, like when I took it and I had a discussion and I couldn't really remember what the other person had said. That's not long-term use, but it shows a little bit of the lack of concentration that you can get and it was actually quite powerful I, I thought you know, like having al, you know, like having Alzheimer's.

Dave Liss: 19:06

But it's funny because when you're with a group of people everyone's stoned you kind of feel like you're being really profound and thoughtful when you're talking with other people.

Ketil Hviding: 19:16

I haven't had that, but I've seen people in that environment. They look completely silly.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 19:21

I have a friend and her sister smokes every single day and that and her family says that she's, um, she's an easier person to be around, she it helps with her anxiety, with depression, and and I just wonder and she also smokes cigarettes and I'm thinking, is that what it points out, and sort of what we've been saying, is that it affects different people differently, and so there are people who, can you know, my first experience with it was not a good one, and so, because of that experience, any time the thought of doing it, I remember that experience because it was so vivid and real to me that I didn't want to do it. Well, the same thing for the person who, on the other side, realized, if I take this every day, I'm calmer. So these are the people who have attention deficit disorder or hyper anxiety disorder. They'll take it and they'll tell you they're much calmer, and people who are around them, who know them, will say that they're different yeah they'll think that they're taking a prescription drug.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 20:38

But they may only be taking marijuana because you know it's like anything else. Most of us don't go around telling all our friends every drug we take Not part of the normal conversation to sort of do that. Now, when it's appropriate, you share that information, but on a normal basis Well, it's different if you're smoking, because you can smell it a mile away. When it's there, it's easy to know that it's in you somewhere. You may not see the person smoking, but it's in you you walk down the street in New York and you get it there.

"Aussie" Mike James: 21:12

You know, in DC oh yeah, in DC High, as we used to go, you get an eye to walk down, but to be the devil's advocate here, dr K, when you talk about chronic use, I mean if you're a chronic person, chronic alcohol use, you should get the same things, though right, your memory goes, your speech deteriorates, your performance deteriorates and so forth. So I guess it's a matter of anything done to excess. It has some consequences that aren't too good. But I'll question yeah, the analogy I've always used and again, I'm not a smoker, but I've always said if you get a group of young bucks or young aggressive guys around drinking alcohol, there's going to be something happens later on. I mean, there could be trouble, yeah, but a group of people smoking marijuana, that won't be an issue. I mean, is that too simplistic? A sort of a?

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 22:00

Again this goes into. Who are these people basically before all of this?

Ketil Hviding: 22:06

happened, Controlling for the type of people we're talking about. I see the boxers. Whatever they take, they're going to get into trouble.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 22:15

And those are the slim nerds, yeah that's what happened, and I think that if nothing more we get out of this is that it is important to recognize that the marijuana that's out there is not uniform.

"Aussie" Mike James: 22:31

Right.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 22:33

So the marijuana that's being sold in DC is going to be different than likely than the marijuana in Virginia or the marijuana in Massachusetts or in New York or wherever. And because it affects people differently, now what? We are creatures of habits so that if we go to the same store all the time to get the same thing and we get the same benefit from it, we tend to revisit it. Well, it's no different than marijuana. Go there and you're in this terrible pain. You got this terrible back pain that the opioids and that's one of the things that they have found that in people who have been, they're paying so bad that they're on opioids when they start taking marijuana. Their use of opioids goes down and technically, the view that opioids are a much more dangerous drug long term for use. So indirectly there's a benefit from it. You get the person off of it.

Dave Liss: 23:36

Can you talk a little bit about the different kinds of marijuana and the difference between smoking marijuana on the body and eating marijuana on the body, like sativa indica on the couch or hybrids, that kind of thing?

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 23:53

So the smoking is the one that many people back in the 60s and the 70s was the thing that most people were doing and most people were doing Now. It's a combination of because it's legal in 39 states now and the District of Columbia that you can. Now they're selling it as edibles in different forms, as gummies. I've even seen things where they've given it funny names to attract. I would say this is a negative part of it to attract things like calling it pot tarts and you know it's a takeoff on pop tarts.

"Aussie" Mike James: 24:37

Sure.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 24:37

You know which indirectly. Who are they indirectly trying to sell this to? Yes, and you know, and for one thing so, but you can. Smoking is the quickest way because you inhale it and it goes in, gets into the bloodstream immediately and it goes to every organ in the body, including the brain of giving people treatment for it. They found that people when they were taking the gummies or the brownies or however they're taking it by mouth, for those people who have a condition we call irritable bowel syndrome, where people have periods where they have a lot of loose bowel movements and crampy abdominal pain, or there's a form of it where you have crampy abdominal pain and constipation, a form of it where you have crampy abdominal pain and constipation, or another. There's four forms of that.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 25:31

And what they found? That some people who take it that way get relief of their symptoms. But again, because it hasn't been standardized how they tested it, you don't know if it's really that marijuana that they took earlier in the day, or is it that they just changed what they ate or that their stress level is less. We just don't know. When you smoke it and inhale it, you know. They see that it has a benefit where it gives people and, as Kettle said earlier, once you inhale it, because it goes directly, it's like alcohol. It's why, when you go to a bar, they always put a little tiny, tiny straw in the drink. And what does that do is, if you sip it through there rather than just drink it, you actually are sipping in, taking in oxygen goes straight to the brain.

Ketil Hviding: 26:30

That's why they had the straw. You know the straw, I just saw intense. I thought this was a girl.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 26:39

I thought you know A quick way to get people, because a lot of people that go to bars don't really drink a lot, so you do that in there. So the nip and stuff the body by eating it as opposed to smoking it.

Dave Liss: 27:09

I don't know if that's because every place you get it it's different. It's not like you buy it and watch the cookies.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 27:15

Well, I guess indirectly. The difference is that when you eat it and it's broken down and put into the circulation, it goes to every organ in the body equally. It just gets distributed equally Versus inhaling it. It's first coming up here to the head. It's first coming up here to the head, to the lungs and then goes everywhere else.

Ketil Hviding: 27:39

I have a question related to what Mike said fear of cancer, I guess, or the same effect of tobacco, but I do think that smoking marijuana is less linked to Infusina.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 27:53

I don't know what you have is. You may have people who are more at risk for having a condition we call bronchitis, which is inflammation of the upper lining of the lung and marijuana. So therefore, you may be someone who now is developing a chronic cough Because we used to, I you know, there are a lot of people who smoke cigarettes who cough all the time, but there are a lot of people who smoke cigarettes who don't cough. So is the belief is there's more inflammation with inhaling marijuana in the lungs itself, but there's been no close association with cancer of the lung.

Dave Liss: 28:36

Okay, I mean, but you're not saying it's safe to smoke, you're saying they haven't directly linked smoking marijuana with increased risk of cancer.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 28:46

Yeah, that's all, that's a whole science for it.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 28:48

Part of it still is. There aren't a lot of studies out there literally testing that theory? Because, again, as Kevin said earlier, you need to have a sort of placebo-controlled environment where you have one group who's actually getting the marijuana, environment where you have one group who's actually getting the marijuana. Now, anybody who's smoked marijuana and has smelled it you kind of, even if you're not the one smoking, you know that, you know that that person's smoking it. So if you gave the placebo group what was essentially tobacco and had them inhale it and they don't get that same aroma and smell and they don't get that sort of same sort of nice, euphoric, calm, relaxing sensation, they already know oh wow, I'm in a placebo group, I'm not getting anything. So there there are difficulties in even wanting to test that from that perspective. You know.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 29:48

Now the other way you could do it is you. You could take two groups of people who smoke marijuana and basically do serial chest X-rays, make them cough up sputum stuff like that. You might get something out of that, but it's, it's not realistic and and you know, and again, eventually the placebo group's gonna know they're not getting anything and particularly if there's someone who's all they really enlisted in this because they wanted to get free red marijuana. And after two weeks, you know, smoking two, two joints a day and stuff. I don't feel anything, I don't feel anything.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 30:29

You know I'm up all night.

"Aussie" Mike James: 30:34

Like low-alcohol beer, Dr K, with the medical. What about for pregnancy and breastfeeding and the effect on fetal and infant development? We know normal smoking has big effects on that. What about marijuana?

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 30:49

It's probably the same thing Again. The simple thing about pregnancy is that you know, and the recommendations have always been the same Don't give them anything during pregnancy, because the particularly the first three months, four months of the pregnancy, pregnancy when the baby is developing all of its organs, tissues and everything. If you do it then now, and you know in theory, you would expect that it might be an issue. Now that brings up the point what happens and why they are against having young kids using marijuana. They have definitely found that there's impaired attention, difficulty to focus, memory and learning problems, difficulty thinking things through, poor IQs. So they clearly have shown that if people who were smoking marijuana before they were 18 years old, they tended not to be as academically smart as those who didn't.

Dave Liss: 31:57

Does it affect people differently throughout their life, like a teenager versus a 40 year old, versus an 80 year old?

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 32:05

versus a 40-year-old versus an 80-year-old. Again, it depends on the reasons why. So I always say you know, we have to remember that under normal circumstances most people aren't doing marijuana every day like a person does a cigarette, you know, or even a person has a drink, you know, in many ways it was started out as a social. It was part of a social thing to you know, get to hang out with your buddies, your girls and have a good time and and then relax and enjoy. So it's difficult to I wouldn't think that there's, for whatever reason, older adults, when they start using it, for the most part they're using it because they have a specific need that they want to address. Pain is one, nausea and vomiting is another. Sleep has become another.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 33:07

Now, as mentioned earlier, people who start taking smoking, marijuana, using gummies and edibles, etc. There have been reports and again reports that they sleep better. They sleep better. They notice, if I take my gummy at 7 pm, I sleep better that night. But if I take my gummy at 12 noon, I don't necessarily sleep any better at night because I'm probably napping in the middle of the day and this is very much individualized. Everybody. And again, there's no, at least to my knowledge knowledge there's no standardization of marijuana because the percentage of the thc in each plant is different.

"Aussie" Mike James: 33:55

So dr k, with those medical implications? What about marijuana's interaction with other medications? What should the patients and health care providers be aware of? Is there anything? You shouldn't mix it with them. Your adduce and so forth, I don't know.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 34:08

Blood pressure, blood pressure medication. I take the same principle. I'd say that's always. You have to have that discussion with your provider Anytime you're going to try a new drug. You know sort of and many times it almost always say so. For instance, you almost don't want to mix marijuana with opioids because it tends to one, because they both have the potential for becoming addicting drugs. You know same principle. You probably don't want to mix marijuana with alcohol. You know double whammy. Yeah. So same principle. I would say that it's important that you should try not to mix any drugs, that you haven't had a discussion with someone who's more in line to give you some answers remember in high school health class they talked about the potentiating effect.

Dave Liss: 35:04

It was alcohol. That one drug intensifies the effect of another. Is that a good understanding?

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 35:10

Again, yeah, depending on the drug, depending on what its mode of action is, yes, but everything is different. It's all very much up in the air.

Dave Liss: 35:21

I've heard some people say that you can't get addicted to marijuana, and I don't know about that.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 35:27

I don't know about that one. Anybody's entitled to say anything.

Ketil Hviding: 35:33

That one's a little bit strange.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 35:35

Yes, you know, I would always say I could. You know, it's no different than the person saying you can't get addicted to sugar.

Ketil Hviding: 35:44

Sure, sure, maybe there's no withdrawal effects in the same way as there are with certain other drugs, or at least not strong withdrawal effects.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 35:53

I would say for the person who uses it, you'd almost have to be using it like the person who smokes cigarettes, that you're smoking every day, or you're using marijuana every day. You're using it three or four times during the day and then you cut it off Because, remember, once the chemical gets in the body, it goes to different cells within our body and has an action effect. It's either going to enhance the release in the brain it enhances the release of certain chemicals, which in some people is a good thing, it calms them down, um or in others, it elevates their mood, makes them happy, etc. Same same principle. So what you think? If you've been doing something regularly for an extended period of time and you take it away, it's no different. Same thing would happen with alcohol.

Ketil Hviding: 36:49

There's a strong withdrawal effect and tobacco, but maybe here too, I mean. But you could probably measure that I'm very skeptical. I don't know what the studies are for taking it as a sleep aid on a regular basis, as I am with any other medication, and in particular because I don't know what the studies are. But the REM sleep is for me important and I've felt that when I've done it in the morning I'm a little, but that may be just an imagination.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 37:26

Well, I agree with you about the REM sleep, because that's the most important one. And again, there have been studies where they've said where people have gotten the benefit of better sleep with the use of marijuana. What we're not sure about is what kind of marijuana are they having? What's the dose of the marijuana? Are they taking it to get them back to getting? Because once you can get into REM sleep you can have a good sleep. So if it takes three or four days where this person using the marijuana to get good sleep, they may be able to stop and go right into REM sleep. But we don't know. And again, this still points out, they still have to do a lot of studies. I know Harvard is doing. The organization at Harvard is called MIND, m-i-n-d, and they are doing studies. They're doing a lot of studies to to determine those effects, to see what benefits there are, etc it's common to take for sleep.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 38:32

Now that is quite common for especially older people to take it for a sleep aid well, I will tell you, for older people who've never done it, it is hard to get them to consider doing something like that, because part of it is it for the longest time our view of marijuana publicly has. No, you shouldn't do that. No, you shouldn't do that. And now that it's become legal, because they say most of the people who go to the medical medicinal places are in their 30s, so the boomers are not boomers.

Dave Liss: 39:13

No, they just drink more. Who must drink a lot. I have a friend who works in a retirement community and they have increasing things with marijuana usage for the residents and that's a retirement community for old hippies, doug.

"Aussie" Mike James: 39:33

That's why and they can do it legally, I sure will.

Dave Liss: 39:39

You got Dave's friends. I guess it was the Jimmy Buffett retirement community but, that's different.

"Aussie" Mike James: 39:47

But I'd the old bugbear, the old pejorative term that people who really didn't want you to take anything they always said it was like they used that term gateway drug. Yeah, yeah, that was the popular term. Yeah, is there any proof of that? I'm a beer drinker. It doesn't mean I'm going to be drinking scotch, and lead me on to it.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 40:05

That's the way I view it. Well, the simple answer is I don't think it's any more gateway drug than anything else is yeah and again but this always goes back to personally that there there are, because I think we all have the ability to become dependent on something if we use it enough yeah and if, when using it, it gives us a certain we use to constantly use the same thing again.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 40:34

You get, you get something from it. You get some reward when that reward is no longer as intense. This, this is nothing like heroin, this is nothing like speed cocaine, none of those things like that where you get this immediate sort of sensation and when it's gone, you want more of it. It doesn't appear to be that that's the case, but I always say that you're always going to find an individual or individuals who use it and no longer get the benefit and advance to something else because they're looking for.

"Aussie" Mike James: 41:12

Right, a bigger hire, yeah, yeah. But here's another one that wasn't on our rundown actually. I'll throw this out to all the dads in our group what about if you have a youngster growing up who starts experiencing marijuana and things like that? What's your advice on approaching something like that If you're a concerned parent or uncle or auntie or whatever, firm and delicate?

Ketil Hviding: 41:34

Yeah, yeah, I mean in my family, and not only because of me, but it was like you know, I never tried it, which is not true. Never tried it, which is not true. No, I mean, you know. So I think in a way, especially with the legal drug, you will have this sort of discussion that we have now about the. You know, they probably already tried it.

Ketil Hviding: 41:58

When you have a discussion and then you need to kind of figure out a little bit in what context and what actually was the uh, the um, the effect? And you know, there's always a aspect you know, illegal drug is pretty straightforward. It's like you don't know what you get. You can get something really dangerous there. I think there's a big, actually the biggest danger, uh, although there are other as well, but uh, and now with legal it's a little bit the same. You know, you go to a uh, one of those gift shops in DC. They can put a lot of things in there, right, and again, they're using it, maybe for some special benefit. But I think in reality is that I mean you have to kind of push for the fact that you need to affront the world as much with kind of clear eyes as possible as being sober. Yeah, once in a while they try something else that you know. It's not different from what we've done, but it's important not to lock yourself out from the reality.

"Aussie" Mike James: 43:05

Right, yeah.

Ketil Hviding: 43:05

So you need to have a discussion about it, like with sex, yeah. It's not easy, you know, sex is probably the more difficult thing.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 43:14

They're difficult discussions. I remember having the discussions, but it wasn't me that initiated it. Interesting, no, my kids asked me how old were you when you tried this Interesting? And I said why would you assume that I tried it? Because I know all my friends, all your friends who are my uncles.

Ketil Hviding: 43:45

I know them right so did you give him the answer then the effect that that had on you yeah it sounds quite impressive, actually, you got good stuff there, you don't you? Yeah? Yeah, it sounds quite impressive, actually, you've got good stuff there.

"Aussie" Mike James: 43:59

You don't need this stuff anymore. Avoid the dancing lions and elephants.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 44:03

It was really interesting To the point that we can't have any ceramic anything on our coffee table. Really, really no.

Ketil Hviding: 44:18

The next podcast, I'm going to come up with some ceramic and I've got to.

"Aussie" Mike James: 44:23

Look, we've covered a lot of the physical aspects and so forth. Anything we missed there, guys. Dave, do you have anything else to throw out there, because I thought we'd move on to the economic and business considerations.

Dave Liss: 44:34

Are we good to move on? I think we've covered a lot of areas.

"Aussie" Mike James: 44:37

So, all right, this might be right in your area a lot more Kettle. How has marijuana legislation impacted state economies and what are the potential long-term economic benefits and costs?

Ketil Hviding: 44:49

I mean there's shown to be some increase in income in those states, in particular the newcomers. So they had a lot of tourism, a lot of marijuana tourism, but actually the impacts on the economy are not that really large. I mean, it's a very competitive industry, as you know. Some effects on taxation, of course. You get increased taxation and actually it's quite interesting, you also have federal taxation. How?

Ketil Hviding: 45:14

does that work. I was so surprised and I actually talk about it being taxed more than other businesses. But again, you know, these are probably, you know, things to kind of sort out on uh, on, kind of so taxation is quite so. So taxing goes up on marijuana because, on alcohol, because there's some reduction in alcohol consumption when you have it's been freed in different states. That also impacts, it seems, driving under influence, violations and traffic accidents. Actually, a traffic accident seems to have gone down significantly, but not a lot.

Ketil Hviding: 45:54

The big question and big debate actually in some states and being the effect on homelessness and where things, like you know, there was a report that the number of 35 increase in homelessness, but then the data are not significant as economists will say it. So there is a question of significance. But then, of course, there's a question what all these kind of studies? They are event studies. They say you have a treatment they call it treatment actually affecting, when actually you have a deregulation or the legalization, and then you see what's happening afterwards. But a lot of things are happening afterwards that you don't control, for you're not able to control. So I would say homelessness is, um, I would guess it's a spurious or not really a real thing, but it definitely is something being talked about because you have your typical popular examples of San Francisco, homelessness in San Francisco, even in Colorado and some kind of and it might also be that might be linked to the fact that the places that you have the most earliest liberalization are also quite liberal versus homelessness.

Dave Liss: 47:00

Was there anything about rates of drunk driving decreasing or anything like that?

Ketil Hviding: 47:04

Rates. Yeah, I mean, I don't have numbers in my head, but there is a reduction in drunk driving, but there is, of course, driving under any influence on. Marijuana is also dangerous. It's not so easy to pick. You need to protest. You cannot just brutalize a marijuana drinker, I think, especially if they've taken an edible. But as you were when you were taking, you had the impact and you don't know what's going on. You're gonna be off the road as well. I mean with marijuana or with alcohol, but so but, but overall it seems like it's reduced somewhat the basically driving under influence, whatever it is that impacts it, the basically reduced traffic distance, but it's more effective.

"Aussie" Mike James: 47:58

Okay, so, ketel, you said it's an opening in the burgeoning area. What are the key challenges and opportunities for entrepreneurs looking to enter the cannabis industry?

Ketil Hviding: 48:07

It's that it's very competitive. The margins are small, it's not, but it's also a competitive industry in a way. It is possible to enter. So it doesn't take too much to set up a shop, you uh. But then you will have to look your back for the kind of cannabis products that's out there, because there's a lot of innovation and a lot of different things that comes out. But you know, it's uh, it's in a. You can enter the market. Still it's not monopolized. When the big tech company starts entering, or maybe Trump enters the market, then it might not be possible anymore. But we're not there yet.

"Aussie" Mike James: 48:47

Okay, so what are the economic implications of the current federal-state legal discrepancy surrounding marijuana, particularly for banking and interstate?

Ketil Hviding: 48:56

commerce. Of course, the banks have problems legally. So basically, the operators cannot have bank accounts in the same way I mean check accounts in the same way. They might have a bank account, but they are really severely limited using our banks and that's why you have cash going on and that increases the danger. Of course, as you know, you see these places, they have guards outside because they have a lot of cash in there, in these shops.

"Aussie" Mike James: 49:24

And that's a big time as well.

Ketil Hviding: 49:26

So having a legalization on a federal basis would make a lot of sense in terms of reducing these sort of crime tendencies, make the market more transparent, make it easier to operate and maybe even it would be easier to scale up as well. If you can have a good banking relationship, it's easier to scale up the business.

Dave Liss: 49:46

First place I ever went in DC Sorry, the first place I ever went to in DC to buy pot. I was anxious about going it's just been legal recently and I went up the escalator and there were two policemen. I thought, god, I'm gonna go walk up the stairs. But they were there to help you find this place where you're gonna buy the dope when I have.

Ketil Hviding: 50:10

The few times I've done it, but I've gone in and you will have a rather strong looking guy, maybe two, looking at you in a rather kind of suspicious way. Yes, I mean, if there's not police security, there's always security.

Dave Liss: 50:27

I mean, it's a strange thing. It's the only kind of place you can physically go to as a store, where you can't use plastic. You can only pay cash, know, and why is that?

Ketil Hviding: 50:39

why, no, it's because it's federally, uh, it's a little crime like the bank because I know, I've been.

Dave Liss: 50:49

I've been. I was a coffee place that opened near me and I went in there and I I what? I left my my card in the car, but I had cash and they wouldn't accept cash. They only took plastic. What, what was that?

Ketil Hviding: 51:01

Where.

Dave Liss: 51:01

This place in Virginia. So it's the opposite. They only took plastic, yeah, and I think that, like with marijuana, you can't use plastic and like this, no, no, no, exactly.

Ketil Hviding: 51:12

And it's because, for a bank whose federal charter is a federal, it's a crime to facilitate the purchase of marijuana.

Dave Liss: 51:24

Well, this friend of mine, my friend's sister, was talking about a place where she went and she had so much cash. If you want cash then you have to pay the surcharge on the. I don't know if that's related to the pot store or the bank that they're using or both, but yeah, it's the same place with Rob that I've gone to. They had to move, yeah, sure, because all it was was cash More than anything.

Ketil Hviding: 51:48

I mean it is also from state to state and from district to. I'm in DC. It's a very it's not a very transparent market. What is actually going on changed from month to month. Now it's changing somewhat the legislation here. They're trying to clamp down on those gift shops. So basically, the gift shop is a place where you buy basically an artwork that's valueless, but you pay 20 or 30 bucks for that and you get like some gummies in exchange. So moving more towards dispensaries because the dispensaries have been complaining that those gift shops have been taking over the market- taking their money dispensaries and you can get the medical marijuana easily by just filling in the form and saying that you need it for medical reasons.

Ketil Hviding: 52:37

So it's pretty much recreational in effect. So that's the sea, but you know, like two months the whole situation might be changing. So it's not the. And again, you know, traveling with this stuff is. I know people been doing it and I know people who've done, but they could be stopped at the airport and they could be handcuffed. Really Well, they don't. They're not. I mean, the reality is that it's tolerated in the US in most places and TSA is tolerating it. But go abroad and then you're really more careful. And you know there was this athlete that got imprisoned in russia. Yeah, ridney grain.

"Aussie" Mike James: 53:18

Yeah, yeah, absolutely all right. We've covered a lot of areas there, guys. I mean, if there's uh one to make, if each of us had one point we could bring up, or, to summarize the discussion, my view of all you've said that this is I'm not going to try it anytime soon. I'm sticking to where I've got. Alcohol is enough for me. But I do see I've learnt about the different strengths which I didn't know about. And I'm not going to steal Dr Kennedy's thunder, but I would say anyone who's contemplating starting it would be, especially if they're about my age, in their 60s would want to talk to their doctor first to get a you know, and work out where their lifestyle is in terms of medication and so forth. And work out where their lifestyle is in terms of medication and so forth. Dr K, do you have any?

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 53:58

final words, I tend to agree with you, but I'd say you have to decide why you want to do it. It's not one of those things that you know like. It's like the person who is going to drink alcohol for the first time. Sometimes you do it just because you're just fitting in with the crowd, the event, et cetera. But then afterwards, when you have the opportunity to do it and it's legal, you ask yourself why do I want to do this? Now, I can understand the person who has significant pain using it, at least attempting to use it if other things have not worked, and like so many other things in life, what you hear a lot of times, you hear from other people you know who've had similar concerns about whatever it is. If it's based for a medicinal purpose, right, it is. If it's based for a medicinal purpose, recreationally well, recreationally again, is if it's going to be a very occasional kind of thing, that's one thing. But if it's now going to become part of it that every day I need to take a lunch break and go out and take two puffs, you know then you kind of have to ask yourself what is, what's the reason why you really need to do that now, when you never used to do it before, because then we start talking about other concerns and you know so.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 55:28

I think that it's you know. There's so much up in the air about it. It would be nice if, somewhere down the line, they eventually standardize it so that we know, first of all, you know what you're getting and and you know if it's it's, if they use milligrams, if they use percentage, however they do it, it needs to be some consistency, because otherwise then you're a prisoner to where you dispensary you go into and they may you know, not to say that anybody's trying to do anything nefarious. It's just the reality is we have lots of products out there in the open market that we can walk into a drugstore supermarket and purchase and we have the expectation that it's got what they say is in it. Right, that is not necessarily always the case with marijuana, particularly not that it's not marijuana in it. It may be marijuana, but it may be much more than you might.

"Aussie" Mike James: 56:32

Much more potency.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 56:33

Yeah.

"Aussie" Mike James: 56:34

That's a very big point. I would never have known that neophyte that I am. But, Kettle, do you have anything else to add?

Ketil Hviding: 56:41

I would really focus on that and because this is a very unregulated market, I think we need much tighter regulation of it, standardization. We also need to get more research on the effects. Yes, to get more research on the effects. Yes, because this is and I'm also a little worried that in certain states there's a marijuana lobby now, yes, right, and they are pushing for let them do whatever they want. And again, it might not be that they are trying to kind of do us harm, but they indirectly do us harm by trying to make profit. And that's an old story, as you know Right, dave, do you have anything else to add?

Dave Liss: 57:22

I think what Dr Kennedy and Kettle said and you well said, I'll leave it there. I think.

"Aussie" Mike James: 57:28

Okay, no problem, okay, so, folks, there you have it. That's a 360 degree view of marijuana use, from its effects on individual health to its ripples across our economy and society. Covered a lot of ground today, from medical applications and fitness considerations to addiction concerns and economic impacts. We hope this episode has helped clear the air on some of the complexities surrounding cannabis use. Remember, at Wellness Musketeers, we believe that informed decisions lead to better health outcomes. If you've found value in today's discussion, we'd be thrilled if you'd subscribe to our podcast and share this episode with others who might benefit from this information. Your support helps us continue to bring you comprehensive, unbiased content on important health and wellness topics. Got any thoughts on today's episode or ideas for future discussions? We'd love to hear from you. Reach out to us at davidmliss at gmailcom. So until next time, this is Ozzie, mike, james and the Wellness Musketeers reminding you to stay informed, stay well and always consider the bigger picture when it comes to your health and wellness journey.