COVID Chronicles: Personal Journeys, Long COVID, and Vaccination Insights with Dr. Richard Kennedy

Ready to uncover the real stories behind the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic? Join us for a compelling episode of the Wellness Musketeers podcast, where Dr. Richard Kennedy, Ketil Hviding, David Liss, and Aussie Mike James share their personal experiences with the virus. From Dr. Kennedy's severe first infection to Aussie Mike's own surprising evasion of COVID-19, this episode promises insights into the varied individual journeys we've faced. Learn how vaccination played a pivotal role in shaping our experiences and why public health measures remain crucial.

Curious about the enduring effects of long COVID and the importance of vaccination? Dr. Kennedy helps break down the complexities of long COVID, elucidating the wide range of symptoms and the new specialized clinics designed to help those affected. We'll explore the prevalence of long COVID, current research efforts, and tackle vaccine skepticism head-on. Through personal anecdotes and expert advice, we emphasize the safety and significance of getting vaccinated to avoid severe outcomes.

How has COVID-19 reshaped our society? In this episode, we compare the prolonged and unusual symptoms of COVID-19 to the flu, sharing our own experiences and their social implications. We highlight the critical need to protect vulnerable populations, especially children and those with underlying health conditions, through vaccination and booster shots. Get practical tools and advice to enhance your health and wellness in the age of COVID-19. Don’t forget to subscribe, rate us five stars, and share this enlightening episode with your loved ones!

Chapters

• 0:06 Current State of COVID
• 11:56 Understanding Long COVID and Vaccination
• 27:19 COVID-19 Impact on Society
• 39:33 COVID Vaccination and Booster Recommendations
• 46:30 Wellness Musketeers Discussion and Request

Transcript

Aussie Mike James: 0:06

Hello and welcome to the Wellness Musketeers podcast, where we discuss health, wellness, fitness and, more broadly, the art of living. I'm your host, aussie Mike James, a freelance writer and speaker with over 30 years of international experience managing leading corporate fitness in Australia and in Washington DC with C with the World Bank Group. I'm joined by my fellow musketeers Dr Richard Kennedy, an internist, who has over 36 years of clinical experience, including the World Bank clinical services and private practice. Kettle Heiding, an economist, with 30 years of experience. 35 years of experience, most recently, 24 years with the IMS. Kettle has a keen interest in health, wellness and the intersection between wellness, society and how organizations function. And, last but certainly not least, the handsome David Bliss, a DC-based journalist and media professional. Liss, a DC-based journalist and media professional.

Aussie Mike James: 1:10

So today, welcome Wilders Musketeers to a special episode where we're going to look at the current state of COVID Now, as we enter the fourth year of the pandemic. The virus continues to challenge us with new variants and health impacts, and today we'll explore the latest development, navigate common concerns. And today we'll explore the latest developments, navigate common concerns, and try and equip our listeners with the knowledge all safeguard our wellness profiles or our wellness futures. So, I'd just like to get the ball rolling a little bit, guys, and full disclosure on our panel. Could we give us a little bit of a history of? Have you actually had COVID at this point of the journey?

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 1:48

Dr K, what about you? Yes, twice, twice. I had it in 20, which was probably the worst of it, and I knew I was going to get it because six or seven people in the building and on our floor in the clinic Got it. So, it was a matter, and I knew who the index case was. So, there was a patient who came in and said I'm not feeling well, I have a fever, I'm coughing, and we took her temperature. And then I asked her why don't you put a mask on it? She said oh no, I've had a common cold like this before. I just want to make sure it's not flu. And back then we could test them in the office for COVID. Of course she had it. So, then everybody else tested for the next two days and I was fine. On the fourth day I got COVID, and back then, when you got COVID, you had to be away from everybody for 14 days. Back then, when you got COVID, you had to be away from everybody for 14 days and fast forward to 20, potentially.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 2:48

Three and a half weeks ago, out of the blue, without warning, I developed a cough, and the only connection was I had flown to Mississippi to meet with my daughter, and I flew back and it's a short flight, like an hour flight from Jackson Mississippi to Houston and I had my mask with me. But I didn't. And because it's such a short flight and it's a small plane, even that short period of time nobody was wearing a mask in the plane except one person, the person sitting in front of me. Three days later I developed a cough and that's, I'm assuming, where I got COVID from. At the time.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 3:32

I just all I had was a cough I took, got COVID and in two days I was fine, had no other symptoms. I just wore a mask around the house with everybody and it was fine. So, if I compare the two, the second time was a very mild case. The first time I had four or five symptoms cough, runny nose, knees or headache, chills, diarrhea, runny nose, sneezer, headache, chills, diarrhea, and all I had was a cough. That was a dry cough for three days actually, and then it was good.

Ketil Hviding: 4:13

So, what about you Ketil? I've had it once, as far as I know, and several in the family had it. We were traveling to Argentina I think this was like maybe a year after COVID started getting around, so I was vaccinated, probably twice, and my symptoms were quite mild. I did, because of my age, take medication, but after a week it was pretty much gone, and that's the only time I know I've had it.

David Liss: 4:46

What about you, dave? For me and COVID, about two years ago I had I know who I got it from. I worked out with this guy Wednesday morning, and he said Well, my wife has COVID and by Friday I had COVID, and I had a relatively bad. I had a horrendous cough for several months and I thought I might have long-term COVID, and I had to go to a pulmonologist because the cough just was really bad and wouldn't stop. It was very strange. I had, you know, fully vaccinated. I'm grateful for that and I always wonder to what degree myself and many other people I've met we may have had some episode of COVID and not had it registered full-blown it's . It was COVID.

Aussie Mike James: 5:41

All right. Well, it's interesting all of it because I haven't had it at all. And this is my question to you, Dr. K, without going to a long explanation, I just think, right now that I'm retired and I'm not looking after 3,000 members of the World Bank Fitness Center anymore, and knowing all of your histories, I think I have less people contact than most of you and all three of you, and I'm not a recluse by any means. I'm just thinking in my non-medical logic here and I'd like to get your opinion, Dr. K, would that be the reason, or a major reason, for me not getting it? I just haven't had the people contact that you three have had. I'm fully vaccinated.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 6:21

Well, that is a good point. And there's truth in that If you're not in a place where you're being exposed, then there's less likely a chance that you'll get it. Now we also know, like any other viral infection, such as the flu or the new one that's out and everybody's talking about RS, we're all getting exposed because they are all airborne organisms. They're in the air. So that means is you don't necessarily have to be standing next to the person who has the symptoms. Someone could cough on one side of a store and by the time you get there you inhale those particulate matters and then it typically will take two to three days before the person will get sick. Now, depending on the response of your immune system, if your immune system recognizes oh, that's a foreign subject, and it recruits all of the immune cells to come out there, you may not get COVID. So, I would almost say that because you have traveled, you have been with others. I think when you were celebrating your birthday and everything out and about with folks, I guarantee you were around somebody who had it. You were around somebody who had it. They may not have had any symptoms, because we know that it can take up to two to five days after exposure for a person to develop symptoms. So that's why, knowing like with Dave saying that he worked out with somebody whose spouse had COVID by default, if the spouse had COVID, it's almost impossible for that person to not have been exposed. So, by default, you spending any time with that individual means you are going to get exposed too. And again, what we have seen since COVID has come because it's the virus that has changed its stripes pretty frequently in two periods of time, i. e. the different variants, because since COVID has come out, there have been twenty-six variants. Wow, so there are twenty-six variants.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 8:45

But what has happened since the Omicron? Omicron was worse than 2020, but as it has changed the amount of typically a winter illness, all the other viruses COVID has been a year round. For the most part, it peaked in the winter. Why? Because we're all indoors more often, we're all in enclosed spaces with other people, and so we've changed our habits. Covid forced us all to look at hygiene, personal hygiene, more than the world has ever done. The Asian community has always looked at it that way, but the rest of the world didn't. So, when we started having people use hand sanitizers everywhere you looked, there was a hand sanitizer. Now people carry hand sanitizers in their cars or in their purse with them. You still have people who carry masks with them, and during the winter season this year, the number of COVID cases went up in the United States. The number of hospitalizations for COVID went up in the United States, but nothing like it was in 2020 to 2022. Nothing like it.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 10:17

Now there are facts and reasons for that. People got vaccinated. The more people got boosters the more people changed their behavior. People would. If they knew they were going to be in an enclosed space they didn't feel uncomfortable to put a mask on, and so people went out.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 10:36

And you see people today here in Texas, like, for instance, they go to the local Walmart here or the supermarket Kroger's here. Half the staff that worked in there is wearing a mask all day long. A great example. For some reason, Valentine's Day is a huge event in Texas. I never saw anything like it. I never saw so many flowers and gifts and things like that. I never saw so many flowers and gifts and things like that. They literally set up an entire place where floral arrangements are out in the parking lot In particular, pick up flowers and candy. But when that was happening. You saw people who were working wearing masks. You know people Valentine's that Day is over and we're back to sort of a regular routine. The same people in the supermarket who were wearing masks aren't Right.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 11:31

So it's a very selective sort of thing and I think it has to do with what your personal experience has been with COVID. So, as you mentioned earlier, some people don't ever bother to get tested. You mentioned earlier, some people don't ever bother to get tested. They just based on what they know from friends, family, what they've read or heard. I got COVID, I'm going to just stay home, I'm going to do it and they go lucky. That's all. It is Even the amount of long COVID, because typically we say a person has long COVID If they have one or more symptoms for more than a month. So by definition, Dave, you had long COVID. What we didn't know is how long that might last.

David Liss: 12:16

Everybody's a little bit different. Yeah well, there's this guy I met. I was hacking up almost a complete long every day and I was just hacking and then he was telling me that he had long, COVID. He got in all these different groups to try and understand how to work with the symptoms. He had been unable to exercise for a long period of time. He gained weight, He'd had fatigue, he had all these other symptoms and then for him over time, fortunately they started to fade, and myself with the cough. But I took an Uber and the guy who was my Uber driver I was coughing at that time too, and with a mask on in the back and he said he almost died. He, he had liver failure from COVID, and I had no idea that it could affect a person in that way it affects every system in the body.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 13:15

Again, which ones are primarily, predominantly, predominate at that time. There are different reasons why and this has to do with your overall general health and it's sort of why, you see, the majority of people who have succumbed to COVID have been people who've had concomitant health issues that attack their own immune system. So, things like diabetes, things like asthma, those things are because they're constantly in chronic. Your immune system is constantly fighting, and it feels really if you are fighting one thing at a time.

Ketil Hviding: 14:01

I have a question. So, david, are you free for long COVID, you think. And then the question to Dr Kennedy is what's the percentage of people who get long COVID or those who are infected?

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 14:15

So, I'd say the percentage of people who get long COVID hard to say, but I'd probably say it's between 10% and 15%, which is a lot.

Ketil Hviding: 14:25

Yes, it's between 10% and 15%, which is a lot. Yes, it's a lot, because what do we know about the causes and treat to there ? Because there is research and different hypotheses out there.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 14:39

Yes, there's a lot of research that has been going on and they've been studying the long COVID case to the point where pretty much all of the large medical centers around the world, as well as in this country, have set up what we call the long COVID clinics and what they really are. All of the specialties, be it cardiology, be it gastroenterology, neurology, pulmonology, infectious diseases, psychiatry, mental health all of them get together and they take each individual case. Look at what the symptoms are. The first thing they do is okay, forget that it's COVID for a moment. What would I treat this with? Just based on this person's symptoms and that we know it's a viral infection.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 15:35

So then they start that particular process and what they find is that there people quickly are some recover and then there are other people who are a year in, a year and a half out, still have remnants of the symptoms. So, these people get put into physical therapy, occupational therapy, respiratory therapy, all of that. They go through all of these things and, at least the last time I looked at the research, a lot of the research doesn't really understand why some people get long COVID and others don't, because you also have people who have diabetes or has been treated for cancer, things like that heart failure, and they don't get COVID, or if they get it, they get mild symptoms and they're done. The only caveat that people think is that, since more and more people in the world have gotten vaccinated and boosted, and because, even though the variants have changed the effect of the boosters, even though they change them, they're still effective in countering, all they're really trying to do is to neutralize what the virus can do in the human host. That's all of them.

David Liss: 16:55

Dr Kennedy, as a doctor, have you had people come in as patients that didn't believe it was real or didn't believe in getting vaccines or things like that? Sure, how do you deal with that? Or what do you say?

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 17:13

things like that. How do you deal with that? Or what do you say? Well, you tell them. So, most of the people who don't believe it not that they don't believe it's real, they believe it's an infection. For sure It's kind of hard when the entire world is being affected by it for you to not believe that it exists. But what they'll say is there are a lot of people who've just been anti-vaxxers that think that being vaccinated has caused problems.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 17:36

Vaccination is essentially a medication and, like any medication that has ever been given to humans, even if over the counter , it has the potential to cause harm to somebody. The problem is you can't really predict who it's going to. You kind of know based on studies. So, with all those people they had in the trial before they initially released the Pfizer, the Moderna vaccines, was that they found that okay, yeah, there were a few people, but the percentage was less than 1% who had bad reactions to the vaccine. Well, those people, you tell them.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 18:20

And I've had people who've had family members who've gotten COVID. Remember I had a gentleman who had gone to visit his daughter in another got and COVID. When he got back, was hospitalized on a respirator and then when he finally cleared and returned. He had to get clearance to go back to work. So, he came in to see me. We start talking about getting vaccinated. Well, there was no reason to vaccinate him immediately because his body had already, with all of the infection that he had, the immune system had already produced. But the recommendation was that in six months, three months, you should get vaccinated. His argument was why should I get vaccinated now? I've already had it. And I said Well, the problem is you get this again and you've already had a near-term experience being on a respiratory. Why do you want it to happen again? And he said I'll take my chance.

David Liss: 19:31

I just don't want it to happen again. And he said I'll take my chance. I just don't understand that. What's that line?

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 19:36

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt, that's just I hope that you have people out there spewing that it's not real, it's poison. They're trying to put chips inside of you and all this other kind of nonsense. They're spewing that it's not real, it's poison. They're trying to put chips inside of you and all this other kind of nonsense. So, when you have that happening and again people just sometimes are looking for a reason not to do something If you give them an ethnic reason, they're good.

Ketil Hviding: 20:09

In the beginning it was rolled out as an emergency measure, but that changed, so I could have some sympathy with people who were somewhat afraid because it was an emergency measure, but since then there's lot a more observations. Oh yeah, so if you're anti-vaxxer, of course it's an easy thing, but then I think, unfortunately, some people have become anti-vaxxers after this. Very true.

David Liss: 20:37

Is COVID a crisis now? Because I feel like people just put it away and they're done with it for the most part, like if I go to a gym, you don't really need to wipe up after yourself. Or if you go, what's good? If I go to a gym, you don't really need to wipe up after yourself. Or if you go to a Well, I mean, it seems like people are kind of half, but in many places you go it's like it doesn't exist, it's like it's gone.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 21:00

Well, but again, first of all, it's not gone, and any viral infection sort of decides to express itself to the world. It never really leaves. It will have quiet moments, but the problem is we only react to it when it a crisis. It's not as much a crisis as it was in 2020 and 2021, for sure, but a lot of that has to do with the fact that a large percentage of the world has been vaccinated. A large percentage of the world has changed their hygiene behavior, you know, and so therefore, you've gotten away from it being a crisis, but it's something that is still here why they continue to recommend the vaccine? Partly because the virus continues to change its stripes.

Ketil Hviding: 22:06

But if someone says that, oh, it's just like the flu I mean, in flu you need a vaccine what would be your response?

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 22:17

Well, the only time the flu killed as many people as this did was in 1980. That was before we had any vaccine. Since we've had a vaccine against the flu, and they've been doing a good enough job of being able to predict the newer strains of flu that come each year. The other thing is flu has never been, for the most part, a year-round infection. Covid is a year-round infection. You can get it anytime, anywhere in any part of the year. It doesn't have to be flu. It's mostly a winter, early spring infection.

Ketil Hviding: 23:02

But do we have in terms of data for the situation now and comparing flu and deaths to COVID?

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 23:12

Well, you mean in terms?

Ketil Hviding: 23:13

well, yeah, I mean, I don't know exactly how to compare it, but I would think that it's the probability. If you're not, well, I don't know, I mean it basically that makes sense.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 23:26

The death toll from flu each year, for the most part, has been consistent over the years. It hasn't changed very much. We're nowhere where we were, where a million people were dying. Sure, like it was at its height. Yeah, was at its height. It's just that when this is the most and the best way for me, I look at it, it is still the most contagious thing the world's ever seen. And so, yes, the flu is contagious, but not everybody who gets exposed to the flu will get it. Well, same thing with COVID.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 24:11

The problem is that, whereas flu has predominantly been an upper respiratory to deep respiratory problem, covid, basically because of what it does. It attacks the body. It increases clotting mechanisms, which normally is not a good thing. In other parts of the body, it increases clotting mechanisms, which normally is not a good thing, in other parts of the body, certain parts of the body, so it. And that's why, when you mentioned earlier, someone could have had liver failure. They had someone who started passing blood through their stool. You could have had someone coughing up blood. You could have had someone who had a stroke, someone having a heart attack, someone's kidney failing, the pancreas being down. All of this can occur with COVID. You don't see that with the flu. You just don't see that with the flu.

Ketil Hviding: 25:08

And then long COVID as well, which we don't know so much about.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 25:12

You know most people that with the flu and then long COVID as well, which we don't know so much about, you won't see. You know most people who get the flu. They'll be sick for a period of time but they're going to recover, they're going to recover, and they're done.

David Liss: 25:24

Is COVID? Unusual in that there's a long COVID. There's no long flu necessarily, is there?

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 25:28

First, I've heard of it, there's no long flu necessarily, is there? First, I've heard of it that there's been a thing that has legs that continue. And look at it, those people have long COVID. If you test them, there may not be any evidence that the COVID is positive unless you do really specific tests.

David Liss: 25:48

When I was going through the worst of it. They didn't want to test me.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 25:57

They expected you to be positive. We knew that in the very beginning. We had people who would test positive for COVID, have no symptoms at all and stay positive for six months. We had people who were completely asymptomatic, and they only tested because a significant other who they live with tested positive and had symptoms. So, they tested. But we know that the body's ability to sort of wash it all out so that you get a negative test can be three to six months.

Aussie Mike James: 26:33

Let me ask you guys I mean, you've all had it and, Dave, you sound like you've had it very badly what's the major difference you found with COVID and flu, just in terms of the visceral symptoms? What made it?

David Liss: 26:46

Well, for me personally, it was this really severe cough. I mean I was in finally getting six-pack abs in my life, but it was from coughing, I mean that was. The only thing that upset me about getting better from the cough is that I thought my six-pack is going to go away. I've never experienced a cough like that. I've never experienced an illness that lingered for an indeterminate, unpredictable period of time. You know, I wasn't sure how to approach work, on the sense of going into the office or just because the cough was so bad. I finally did go back but I found a way to isolate myself. And it was kind of crazy too, because the same organizations that were like not letting people come in now was an employment issue because you wanted to go out, because I didn't know how to work with the cough that I had. What?

Aussie Mike James: 27:39

What about you, Dr. K, what was the difference you feel between that and flu?

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 27:44

the two times I've had the flu in my life. I would acutely ill for a week, and I had all the typical I had a cough, I had a runny nose, I had a headache, I was nauseated, I had a fever, I had body aches and chills. My whole body hurt. I couldn't do anything for a week but then when it stopped, it stopped and a week, a day or two after, but I got back to normal, whereas the first time I had COVID after I had no longer had the cough, no longer had the aches and pains and things like that, I was just tired for a month, I didn't have the level of energy that I normally had and just doing normal things wore me out.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 28:39

And also, covid was the first time I, as a clinician, I'd seen people get a cold, and I'm sure there are other conditions that do it but get a cold. And I'm sure there are other conditions that do it but get a symptom. They're only symptoms that I can't feel anything anymore and I can't taste. I've seen that before, unless you have a specific sort of thing, and it would linger for the longest period of time. So, it was odd to see that and again, once again, something I've not seen and that's the thing about COVID is that, because it affects the entire body, any symptom, and it's why when you go and look up symptoms of COVID, they give you the sort of common sort of things. But you could list a hundred and all be accurate Because somebody could get it.

Aussie Mike James: 29:34

What about you, Kettle? What's the difference you found between COVID and the common flu or cold?

Ketil Hviding: 29:41

I mean I didn't get very sick. You know, when I had the flu, the fever was much higher and also, I had the experience that it was acute and then it goes away. Here it's, I mean it was more not that clear what was really going but , I did feel something and they kind of took probably longer to go away. I mean it's also I, I don't know, maybe I have some effects of something. I mean there's this doubt, because you also read about things that it affects your body in a different way. That's why I'm mostly concerned about the long COVID. I know people who lost their male and after, I think, a year, still not there.

Aussie Mike James: 30:26

Rich, I wonder if you could comment on this case. It's got a bit of popular media attention when we talk about being totally reclusive, as some people were and haven't gotten over that. It's still like that. There was the case of Howard Stoon. They say he's almost a total recluse, lives in his huge apartment in New York City, very rarely gets out, but he got COVID. Very rarely gets out, but he got covered. Now the common theory for us non-medical people is to say, well, he didn't build up any natural immunities because he's staying inside the whole time. Could you comment on that? Is that any truth in that?

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 31:00

oh yeah, that's true you don't expose their, your immune system won't feel a threat, so it won't try to develop things that it doesn't need to. Now, that being said, remember, this is an airborne organism, so he may not go out of his apartment, but there are people who may walk on the floor that he lives on. Yeah, there may be people who deliver his meal on. There may be people who deliver his meal. There may be people who pick up his laundry and take his laundry those things people are breathing and so the air circulates there. His wife leads a normal life, so I guess that could be for them. So, everybody. The issue is we're all going to get exposed. The issue is will you have symptoms? If you're unlucky, you'll have symptoms. If you're really unlucky, you'll end up in the hospital.

Aussie Mike James: 32:01

I think it was Baba Booey's fault. Myself I blame Baba Booey if I were Harold, like he always does.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 32:10

Well, like he always does, I have friends who, when you know how, as we loosen the things up and we're getting to some degree of normal where we can go out and we can get together again in public places, I have friends who wouldn't do so. For instance, I have four friends that I've known since 1970. And we quarterly used to get together to have dinner, things like that, all that kind of stuff. Well, one of them, he wouldn't go out and if he went anywhere, he'd wear a mask. Even if he was around other people, he'd sit as far away from everybody as he could. He would text us his joke. You know, we'd be sitting on the other side of the restaurant His joke.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 33:01

Well, for some people and some people it's okay. I'm afraid I don't want to get sick, I don't want to have to deal with and we've all been touched by somebody we know who've gotten COVID and gotten it bad enough that we saw them suffering. Even if we weren't with them, we heard about it, we'd call them, we'd see them on Zoom, we'd see them on a video. And you know, when you see those things, those things take heart. You feel that, and so human nature is protect myself. You know how do I protect myself? So, for some people they'll do the extremes and go okay, you know me and the planet, okay, I'll come out if I absolutely have to, but I'll, you know, I'm going to wear a glove, I'm going to have a mask on, I'm wearing a hat. You know my sleeves I never wear short sleeves All the little things for fear of that happening.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 34:05

When I first got covid the first time I got covid, because I'm living with other people I lived in the basement, and I got all my food. You know they would knock on the door and say your meal meal's ready. Wait till I leave. They closed the door and I go up. That's to ship my meal. So, I was put in a basement as well, you know. That's why I say I never want to hear the word mental again Lost her really quickly.

Aussie Mike James: 34:37

One of my good colleagues at the World Bank, a psychologist, said it's also had the effect beyond the physical and contributed to the loneliness epidemic out there because people who had a predisposition, who would probably go home and live their own life, were led to the loneliness instance. It's exacerbated that because it's given them now more of a fear of even going out. Have you guys experienced that You'd seen people become more likely? Yeah, absolutely. It's a real problem in society because you think you'll just never hear from these folks.

Ketil Hviding: 35:13

I haven't experienced it that much myself, but maybe that's also because of the people I'm surrounded by, but I've been particularly concerned about what we've seen with children and lost years of schooling. One thing that's COVID is different from some of the other illnesses we talk about is how it affects people on the age spectrum, so younger are less likely, and so maybe there was some overreaction when it came to children and youth, because also the psychological impact has been large.

David Liss: 35:46

There was a man I was talking with, and he was a counselor in a high school and he was talking about how you had these kids that were all of a sudden they're in high school and when they left they were in high school, and when they left they were in elementary school or something like that. Because two years at home and all this time behind the screen and then having to readjust and not being able to just shut something off when you're trying to be in front of it and just socialization.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 36:15

Yeah.

David Liss: 36:16

Yeah exactly.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 36:18

Yeah, I think that the children, particularly the children under the age of 10, they might suffer a little bit more, because those are formative years where you're learning socialization, how to interact with people, how to engage yourself in the school world, in the family world, been in the school world, in the family world, learning the sort of right from wrong kind of thing, whereas now you give them a laptop and you give them a computer or an iPad and you say basically, look, this is how we're going to communicate with you. And there are some of us who, as we grow up, we're more comfortable being by ourselves. Yes, for people who are more comfortable, they need to be in the crowd, they need to be in the midst. You lost that, so you literally put an entire generation of kids in this environment where getting used to your communication is a screen.

David Liss: 37:18

Yeah, I mean I have friends and their kids have no close friends in the physical world. Their friends are all virtual from the game they play. They could be in Kenya, Canada or Kentucky and but they don't have anyone. They could go write a bike and get a sandwich with. Yeah.

Aussie Mike James: 37:39

Which turned back to the vaccines a little bit, the often quoted misgivings of people who don't like vaccines. They say that there's a high incidence of myocarditis. Could you comment on that from the vaccine? Well, what is myocarditis?

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 37:53

It's inflammation of the heart muscle, and so, first and foremost, I always say it depends on who's making the statement Correct. So, first and foremost, I always say it depends on who's making the statement. So, by definition, any side effect of anything is high if you happen to be the individual or individuals who get it. But if you know and I always say, think of it from the perspective they gave out 70 to 100 million people got vaccinated about 70 to 100 million people got vaccinated in the US, and maybe less than 1% of people got myocarditis. So, you need to sort of label it as the number kind of thing.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 38:32

But the way we look at drugs and their safety profile, that it can't be something that gives such significant side effects and I don't know the actual numbers that they're talking about but it's such a unique thing that they'll pull it off the market if it's causing that many side effects, particularly if the side effect is leading to death. They'll pull it off the market in a heartbeat, leading to death. They'll pull it off the market in a heartbeat. But there are people who will take aspirin or Tylenol and have bleeding from taking that than the people who are taking this vaccine, and you're sorry for the people who do get the side effects, but that's the thing is you can't make one chemical that is going to be suitable for the entire global population, because there's just enough differences in all of us that what one person might react to others may not.

Aussie Mike James: 39:33

When we're talking about the children and infants Rich and again. It's purely anecdotal, but I think a lot of people might have experienced this. I had my little buddy Sammy, who you've both met. He was only under two years of age, and he fell asleep on my shoulder for about an hour one day. The next day he got diagnosed he had infant COVID. I got absolutely nothing Because I was vaccinated or because his little system just couldn't cope. I had no idea.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 40:01

It probably had something to do with you being vaccinated for sure, right, and also for the most part young kids, unless they had again certain health condition if they got covid and you've heard this again and again and again. My nephew he was eight at the time he got COVID and he was sick for a day and it was fine after that. But everybody his mother, his father, his grandmother, his auntie, everybody else was sick for three weeks and so they'd all been vaccinated. So, you're going to find cases that don't mean most kids have done well they have. You know, the type 1 diabetic might have a problem. An asthmatic child might have a problem. Anyone with any of these blood disorders like leukemia and things like that. They're more likely to have a problem. Anyone with any immune deficiency. You know the number of people with HIV. Percentage-wise there are more people maybe getting COVID and their symptoms might last a little longer, but they've recovered and again it goes back. This really still goes back. What is the general basic wellness of the individual?

David Liss: 41:36

What do you think the world is going to be like going forward? Or how should we think about COVID in the next year, two years?

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 41:43

World Health Organization is that if people have not been vaccinated for more than six months, they probably should go and get a booster, because there are two new variants out now. One is E5 something and the other one is XTEC-B1.something. They have caused mild symptoms, and it was in an accelerated phase during the winter months December, January, February but less so now, and so there's an expectation that there'll be a new variant soon, and so you want to get a booster shot in order to do that. And again, it goes back to common sense General hand hygiene, washing your hands, covering your mouth when you cough or sneeze, or staying hydrated, being as fit as you can be, eating healthy all of these things. This is for any infection, but it's .undefined for a cold

Aussie Mike James: 43:06

Dr. K, You would recommend the booster shot that's out there now, even fully.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 43:10

Yeah, you would recommend it well, what fully vaccinated to me only means that you've probably been more than six months than most people have gotten, so therefore they expect that the strength and the protection of the vaccine starts to wane after six months.

Aussie Mike James: 43:30

Okay, A booster definitely.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 43:33

And I would say those of us who've been with it kind of it is in their best interest to get a booster. Yeah, okay, you already know how bad it could be for you and how bad it was For me clinically, having seen my patients in the hospital and I always say they'd have shown what it looked like for a patient to be on a respirator in a hospital with COVID, unlike anything I'd ever seen and we might not have had the resistance that we had if we just showed that.

Aussie Mike James: 44:15

So, this has been a great discussion. We have covered all aspects and a lot of the anecdotes that I'm sure a lot of our listeners have encountered. Dr. K, I guess, just to sum up, what would be your two or three or four takeaways do you have for our listeners regarding Covid? What will the future be like for us living with Covid? What are the best practices?

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 44:37

Well, I would say COVID is here to stay. It's not going anywhere. So, part of it is what can we do with individuals and a society in a world to mitigate it to the best of our ability? One is getting vaccine appropriately, so doing appropriate things. Don't put yourself at risk. In other words, if you don't feel well, stay home, stay safe. So, we should not want to infect others because, again it is very contagious and we know that not everybody who's going to be exposed is going to get it. They may be the person to pass it on to somebody who can't fight it. Well, you're not vaccinated and makes it easier for that to happen. And the other important point is most of the hospitalization today and most of the cases of the more significant COVID infections are still in people over sixty, or those with concomitant health issues Asthma like diabetes, heart disease, things like that, more immune deficiencies. Those people are more at risk, not to say that the perfectly healthy person can't get it because they do.

Aussie Mike James: 46:02

Yeah, no question about it and then you're, of course you're mentioned hand hygiene and general hygiene and exercise fitness or exercise water more water, water okay, all right, I'll remember when I'm on my fifth beer tonight. There's water and beer.

Dr. Richard Kennedy: 46:21

There is, there is. There's no water only.

Aussie Mike James: 46:27

All right. Well, on that note, thanks guys. It was great. Thanks very much to my co-host, Dr. Richard Kennedy, Ketil Hviding and David Liss. Thank you for joining us Wellness Musketeers. Tune in for upcoming episodes to gain the tools to improve your health, work performance and live with a greater understanding of the world we experience together. Please subscribe, give us a five-star review, and share this recording with your family and friends. You can make a contribution through a link provided in program notes. To allow this podcast to grow, let us know what you need to learn to help you live your best life. Send your questions and ideas for future episodes to David Liss at Davidmliss@gmail. com. Thank you very much, folks, and have a wonderful day.